In fact, Charles Koch tried to get [Mike] Pence to run for the White House in 2012.

It's quite amazingly radical, what their [the Kochs] vision of America would be.

The fear is that we'll move in the direction from being a democracy to an oligarchy.

Barack Obama was elected President in 2008 and re-elected in 2012. The natural thing would be to suggest money on the right [wing] doesn't really matter that much. The first thing you have to know is that the presidential elections are the ones where it's most difficult for money to hold sway, in that they're the most public elections.

Well, they are critics of the Bush administration generally on the human rights record of the administration, and in particular, they are very, very critical of this use of science.

There's been a 40-year effort on the far right to build up think tanks, academic programs, advocacy groups, to push a particular ideology. That's really where the impact is that people don't see.

There's a difference between those two [George Soroses and the Tom Steyers] and the Kochs that I think is important.