I was at Rutgers University, and that was a center for Fluxus in a way. But it wasn't what I was interested in. All of it had an impact - as did happenings - because I could see that art was changing from expressionism, which I was doing at the time, or thought I was doing. But it wasn't the direction I really wanted to go.

I'd always wanted to know the difference between a mark that was art and one that wasn't.

Everybody knows that abstract art can be art, and most people know that they may not like it, even if they understand there's another purpose to it.

I take a cliche and try to organize its forms to make it monumental. The difference is often not great, but it is crucial.

Im interested in what would normally be considered the worst aspects of commercial art. I think its the tension between what seems to be so rigid and cliched and the fact that art really cant be this way.

Art doesn't transform. It just plain forms.

My direction is very anti-contemplative. If you thought I was for commercial products, you'd think there was no irony. The irony isn't meant to be an ironic comment on our society, exactly.