Mark Jones is mad as a hatter. But, he's great. He's really, really into music. I know he's married and he's got two wonderful children, but his life is music. And he's very clever with it.

I think a lot of people go in TV talent shows because they want to be famous and not because it's about the music.

Mark Jones is mad as a hatter. But, he's great. He's really, really into music. I know he's married and he's got two wonderful children, but his life is music. And he's very clever with it.

The likes of Bob Dylan and David Bowie and probably Elvis Presley or any of the Beatles, none of them would have got through Pop Idol, because they're not conventional. They're not what people think is popular now. I like the individuality in people. I don't want everyone to sound the same.

I understand why people do reality TV talent shows, I just don't think it's good for music. It's karaoke. What three people on a panel perceive as being great vocally, I think, isn't necessarily right.

The whole music industry has completely and totally changed from how it was. It's very, very different. When we started, there were loads of record company people throwing money at musicians, and that did give people a long term career.

To be very fair, it was Ian Marsh and Martyn Ware who started The Human League. They brought Philip Oakey in to sing, primarily because Philip was very tall. So it started out as their vision. I don't think anyone ever thought it would be as big as it became. Music evolves and people were looking for something different. We came out at the right time and were just very lucky.