Certainly the Government has tried to handle the matter of our relations with the rest of the Continent in a very sensitive manner.

We want the National Intelligence, we want the Police, we want the Scorpions, any other institutions, the tax people, and so on, the totality of these bodies, to get together.

If we only said safe sex, use a condom, we won't stop the spread of AIDS in this country.

If we don't move forward with regard to creating a non-racial society in South Africa and we allow this legacy of apartheid to persist, these divisions between black and white in wealth and income and so on, in the future you would indeed have an ugly upheaval.

We have a series of regular meetings with South African business. Big business. Black business. Agriculture. As well, of course, with the trade unions. A whole series of meetings like that which engage issues that these South African social partners need to address.

The engagements with the International Investment Council have developed in a very interesting way. It is, again, the point I raised at the beginning.

The reason I joined the struggle against Apartheid was because you had this system of oppression, which affected everybody who was black. Whether you were old or young, man or woman, in a village or a town, it didn't matter.