So I never had trouble getting work or working or doing - I always worked. I worked when I went to college. I worked after school.

I don't have a dream project. I don't really think in those terms, to tell you the truth.

I do make some drawings for wall pieces. I do work out some ideas for large-scale wall pieces where I have to organize words or get proportions right. I do keep them in my files. Not an exhibit or a show; just as part of my records, my archives.

And when you see artists like Donald Judd and so forth being referred to as conceptual, what the hell does that mean? It's a totally meaningless term.

I was a guest at CalArts. John Baldessari invited me out a few times. I've been there. I've been in Pasadena, taught out at Boulder, University of Colorado. And I've taught in Europe. I've lectured and taught. I've taught at the École des Beaux-Arts in Nigne [sp]. I was there for a couple of weeks, I was there. I've taught all over - in Switzerland, Germany.

I have been in competitions for commissions. I've won most and lost some. Mostly, I've won.

You can't make somebody care about what you're doing. Either they get it, either there's that connection - or they don't.