It's [programming] the only job I can think of where I get to be both an engineer and an artist. There's an incredible, rigorous, technical element to it, which I like because you have to do very precise thinking. On the other hand, it has a wildly creative side where the boundaries of imagination are the only real limitation.

But I think Steve's main contribution besides just the pure leadership is his passion for excellence. He's a perfectionist. Good enough isn't good enough. And also his creative spirit. You know he really, really wants to do something great.

Scotty heard that I was thinking about quitting Apple because of his actions, so he called me into his office and asked what it would take for me to stay? I said, maybe if I could work on the Mac project, which Steve had just taken over from Jef Raskin.

As you know, Microsoft eventually kind of grabbed the gold ring out of Apple's hands, I guess.

Being idealistic really helps you overcome some of the many obstacles put in your path.

I did some products for the Apple II, most notably the first small low cost thermal printer, the Silent Type.

I developed some unique software to public it on the web that I call the Folklore Project.