Part of Steve's job was to drum into us how important what we were doing actually would be to the world

But typically for a project like the Mac, the size we had was pretty good. And it has different stages. The team grows as you have to write manuals and do testing... though the Mac had no formal testing.

I left Apple in April of 1984, pretty soon after the introduction of the Mac.

It's [programming] the only job I can think of where I get to be both an engineer and an artist. There's an incredible, rigorous, technical element to it, which I like because you have to do very precise thinking. On the other hand, it has a wildly creative side where the boundaries of imagination are the only real limitation.

As you know, Microsoft eventually kind of grabbed the gold ring out of Apple's hands, I guess.

I'm the kind of developer who likes to throw lightning rods around. To make a great program there's got to be at least one person at the center who is breathing life into it. In a ferocious way.

I started working at Apple about 18 months after I bought my Apple II